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 Is drawing skills important to get into the industry? 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:06 pm
Posts: 5
Post Is drawing skills important to get into the industry?
Hey guys,

Before i start just want to apologise if i am asking silly questions or asking something that has obvious answers.

Well, I am turning 24 and just a N level holder and I been interested getting into the CG industry since '05 but didn't do much when I saw the course fees from prv schools. I admit that it was foolish of me to let go my dreams but back than due to family pressure i backed off. :oops: Most didn't see it as a 'proper career'.
But after 5years I am back one full circle and still a N level holder.
I will be trying to get in to the Nov'09 intake @3d sense media sch.
So before that,

I used to be good at drawing but after long period, now i cant seem to get it right most of my drawings look weird.
Do i hav to be really good at it if I want to get a job in the games industry, since I like 3d modeling and VFX?
If i have good demo reel but my traditional skills are not good will it affect on finding a job.???
Do you have to be artistically gifted/talented to progress in this industry or can it be learned??
What is the entry level pay here?
And any other advise is welcomed..

:oops: Sorry if its too long or my English is not right, its just I feel I need to surround myself with people who understand why I love this & why I want to do this. So i really appreciate and thank you for your time and your advise.

Regards,


Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:25 pm
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 146
Location: Singapore
Post Re: Need some advise
Well the short answer, No. You don't.

The long answer, this is an artistic industry after all, being artistically inclined will definitely increase your chances of advancing in this line of work. Remember that you are applying for the same jobs as everyone else, the ones more artistically incline will definitely stand out.

That said, thats nothing a good dose hard work can't fix. In my opinion, being talented means you get a great result in a shorter amount of time. Instead of noodling around for weeks, you get what you want in a couple days. The rest of us will just have to work much harder to get the same result.

3D modeling requires you to have a strong knowledge of proportions, aesthetics, anatomy. You can't run away from these no matter what, even if you can't draw. If you lack knowledge in these, time to start practicing.

On the issue of jobs, most studios will just look at your 3D demo reel, if you have an awesome 3D reel that should usually seal the deal. Some will demand you submit traditional drawings as well. Entry pay ranges between 1.5 - 2+ depending on your reel and the studio you're applying for.


Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:08 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:06 pm
Posts: 5
Post Re: Need some advise
Thank for the advise maligor,

Regarding drawing is there any good books that anyone can recommend, there is so many out there. As I am weak in drawing faces, people and animals/creatures i would prefer books regarding them also. any suggestions?

Is learning drawing better through books or class??
One more thing is that when i draw eyes the right one looks good but the left is not align or looks terrible, how do i improve on this? I have practice a lot but i guess my technique is wrong.

regarding 3d Modeling, you mentioned a strong knowledge of proportions, aesthetics, anatomy. Is there additional things i should when it comes to modeling buildings, vehicles and landscapes. any books you can recommend??

Sorry If i am troubling anyone. really appreciate anyone's help and advice.

Thanks and warm regards,
:)


Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:43 pm
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 1113
Location: Singapore
Post Re: Need some advise
>Hey guys,

>Before i start just want to apologise if i am asking silly questions or asking >something that has obvious answers.

Please don't apologise. There is no such things as silly questions. Everyone need to start somewhere. And that is why we have setup this forum for. To help artist like you to reach your dream.



>Well, I am turning 24 and just a N level holder and I been interested getting >into the CG industry since '05 but didn't do much when I saw the course fees >from prv schools. I admit that it was foolish of me to let go my dreams but back >than due to family pressure i backed off. :oops: Most didn't see it as a 'proper >career'.


Its good that you hasn't give up. One thing good about this industry is it gives people without a qualification a second chance. Its all about skill. NOT paper.


>But after 5years I am back one full circle and still a N level holder.
>I will be trying to get in to the Nov'09 intake @3d sense media sch.
>So before that,

>I used to be good at drawing but after long period, now i cant seem to get it >right most of my drawings look weird.

Would like to show us some of your drawings.



>Do i hav to be really good at it if I want to get a job in the games industry, >since I like 3d modeling and VFX?


More so for Modelling. Not so much for VFX. But it is useful if you have a good eye for art.



>If i have good demo reel but my traditional skills are not good will it affect on >finding a job.???

Its not about drawings. Its about art sense. Many people learn drawing blindly. Or tracing. Learning how to draw but do not know how to apply in your modeling work is useless. Its all about your sense of art. And it will show in your model, texture and lightings. Your ability to visualise in 3d dimension.

This is especially crucial in organic modeling.

For hard surfacing. Its more of precision modeling. Patience plays a very important part. Sense of perspective and details.


>Do you have to be artistically gifted/talented to progress in this industry or can >it be learned??


I don't believe in artistically gifted. I have mentored some of the worst people in art. The hardwork plays an extremely important role than talent. Hardwork is 99% reason for success. Talent is only 1 %. If one is talented and contented. He will never grow.

Never stop learning. Its crucial in your career development. Keep drawing.


> What is the entry level pay here? And any other advise is welcomed..

Its around $1700 to $1800. The range can be $1500 to $2000. Its all about your reel.


>:oops: Sorry if its too long or my English is not right, its just I feel I need to >surround myself with people who understand why I love this & why I want to do >this. So i really appreciate and thank you for your time and your advise.

Keep questions coming in.


To conclude. Certain major studio is very particular on your art knowledge. Its not about showing them how well you can draw. I know some students learn by tracing. They have beautiful portrait drawings. But you ask them draw something on the spot. They can't draw properly. Then there is no use.

Like I said, nowadays... the expert lead of dpt will be looking at your work. Even without drawing portfolio, when they look at your modeling work, they can tell immediately whether you are good in art or not.

Even if you have beautiful drawing portfolio. But your modeling reel shows that you have bad art sense. It is not going to help.

Hope it clear your doubts. If you have any questions about your career, shoot them over.


Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:06 am
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Singapore
Post Re: Need some advise
To add on to David's advice, if you are weak in drawing, I would suggest "Drawing on the Right side of the brain", its really good. For anatomy, anything by Gottfried Bammes is good.

And nothing can replace drawing from life, you can probably learn a lot about anatomy from books and such, but nothing trains your eye for observation more then drawing from life. Grab a sketch book and start drawing everywhere you go. (this can be hard, I need to do this more often too). Take a look at some of the threads in the Artist's Training Ground section of this forum, you can learn a lot from looking at other people's mistakes and the critiques given to fix it.

Quote:
regarding 3d Modeling, you mentioned a strong knowledge of proportions, aesthetics, anatomy. Is there additional things i should when it comes to modeling buildings, vehicles and landscapes.

There's almost too many things to discuss about, the most obvious problem I think would be technical constrains you might face. Mesh smoothing don't play nice with hard surface objects, you need to make many additional cuts to the model to get the surface to look right. But these are easily fixed, you can worry about them later.


Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:42 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Is drawing skills important to get into the industry?
Thanks Maligor, the book "Drawing on the Right side of the brain" was really interesting and gave me more confidence to improve my drawing. Thank so much.

As my life drawings still as a lot of improvement to go. I am wondering Is drawing by copying stuff from magazines and books improve anything or is it a pointless thing to do??

I am just about to finish my 3d modeling package course from Egg Story, it is a short course but as been a real eye opener. Curious, can modeling be improved and our skills get really good over time with a lot of practice or some people will have problems with it. Cause during the class i had to re-do some simple things 3-4 times just to get it right even than there were some flaws and I faced some problems & difficulty while the rest didn't. Not to mention my modeling process was slow 6hrs to model a spartan helmet, Some one also mentioned that 3d Modeling is really though compared to animation and VFX is it true??

I have no art or design background, it that having some affect on my modeling?
Besides improving on my drawing, where do I go from here? there are so many tutorials online and books but little lost where to start.


Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:44 am
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Singapore
Post Re: Is drawing skills important to get into the industry?
You're welcome :D, that book helped me alot too.

Copy with a firm purpose in mind and you will improve. If you are learning anatomy, copy from anatomy books, study the way the muscles are bound to the bone, the way the skeletal structure supports the whole body. Copy blindly and its just a waste of your time.

You gotta start practicing modeling and keep making new models, throw them on the critiques board here or http://www.cgtalk.com for comments. Don't worry about not getting it right the first time, it will come with experience.
Let me show you, see this, http://www.cgprotege.com/course.html

The two examples there are my friends. One is working in the states now at a games studio. You won't believe how much they have improved in a short time, its not luck or talent, its pure hardwork and dedication.

I disagree with the idea that 3D modeling is the hardest discipline to learn. Getting a decent result in any discipline takes time, animation takes time, vfx takes time, lighting takes time. Some people are just more attuned to certain disciplines, a great modeler might find animation impossibly hard, and vice versa.


Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:31 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Is drawing skills important to get into the industry?
So sorry to interupt your topic .. but I have a problem with proportion wise like the proportion of the human body, leg, hand etc. and the facial like eyes nose mouth etc. do you have any site or books that can recommand for me to study? tks,


Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:21 pm
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:49 pm
Posts: 16
Post Re: Is drawing skills important to get into the industry?
the purpose of drawing as a modeller is to practice your proportions, aesthetics, anatomy etc, not to create beautiful drawings~..know how does the muscles flow, know what is the appropriate size of a human arms, the distance between the two eyes, know how does the human looks like from all angles, things like that.

you do not need to have kickass drawing skills to get into the industry, but of course that doesn't mean its ok to have crap drawings...drawings is just to show your basic knowledge on human proportions, aesthetics, anatomy etc


Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:35 pm
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 14
Post Re: Is drawing skills important to get into the industry?
Am looking for drawing classes for animators in preparation for a Adv Cert in Animation by CG Protege. I think they have still-life drawing classes in the adv cert class. Where can i go for some good foundation class so i can get the most out of the life drawing classes in the adv cert?

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Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:19 pm
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