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 What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists? 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:27 am
Posts: 138
Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
Ok that topic has past. Why not focus on the reason why so little CG artists?

I really feel that it's the recognition of our artists too. Singaporeans like foreign artists than local artists. The same applies to CG as well.

So what if Iron Man 2 or Rango has Singaporeans involved? The public doesn't know right? Plus we have crappy animation like Legend of the Sea or Zodiac to ruin our reputation.

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Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:27 am
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Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 32
Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
The reason why there are so few good artists around in Singapore are simple
1. Lack of Passion
2. No Art Sense

In general, as the years roll on, I see the quality of students deteriorating. Too many think that being a Singaporean is a birthright to good life, straight entry to a big company and exposure to big projects.

5 years ago when I started, I would take up any work just to get my first foot in the industry. Not so long ago, I heard from a friend of mine hunting for fresh grads in DMD Fusion. He told me one student sneered at him and said "I've already applied Lucas". He was nice enough not to say you are only good enough to sell credit cards in MRT stations.

I stop here. =)


Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:42 am
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 1113
Location: Singapore
Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
Hi

First of all, I thank everyone for their compliments as well as compliments to CG Protege. I deeply appreciate it.

What I would like to clarify is that both me and CG Protege interest is to do our best to prepare one to enter into the industry. To get a job! That's about it. The only truth we shared is the international industry standard out there we have to be aware of. No more no less. What other school or other people do is none of our concern. Do not want to cause any misunderstanding. And do not want to offend anyone.

On another note. My concern is what has happened to all the CG artists in Singapore as this is not healthy for the industry. The industry cannot grow without talents. That is the purpose of this discussion. I don't know why it ended up a bitching session on students and then schools. Blaming every single thing under the sky.

I have been busy and have not been following this thread. Was surprised that it started off as a healthy discussion and ended up a heated debate. Hope we can have more constructive discussion that will help the industry.

When I have time, I will try to share some insides about the industry.
Appreciate those who has been trying to help. Lets keep the discussion helpful and constructive. And professional of course. :D


Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:06 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:27 am
Posts: 138
Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
I now better understand the viewpoint of some of the members here to tell grads harshly about the hard truth, and move on or self improvement. Even though I find those words unsympathetic to those hoodwinked grads.

But I feel that a part of me makes some of us wonder if there is really something wrong with our education system. Because the case of the poly not training their grads to industrial standard is not known only to just to media or CG, but in other industries as well.

So I believe we cannot exactly say that blaming the schools is entirely unprofessional behaviour.

I have long accepted the hard truth. But I urge the passionate artists here that if we want to save our industry and our future, we must spread the hard truths to the ignorant grads.

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Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:03 pm
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:51 am
Posts: 80
Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
ttyo888 wrote:
I now better understand the viewpoint of some of the members here to tell grads harshly about the hard truth, and move on or self improvement. Even though I find those words unsympathetic to those hoodwinked grads.

But I feel that a part of me makes some of us wonder if there is really something wrong with our education system. Because the case of the poly not training their grads to industrial standard is not known only to just to media or CG, but in other industries as well.

So I believe we cannot exactly say that blaming the schools is entirely unprofessional behaviour.

I have long accepted the hard truth. But I urge the passionate artists here that if we want to save our industry and our future, we must spread the hard truths to the ignorant grads.


Just don't end up getting David into trouble.


Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:25 am
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 1113
Location: Singapore
Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
Once again. Either me or CG Protege is not here to clean anyone's mess. That has never been our mission. And we are not in that position to do anything like that. And it is not our concern about others business.

Again. I appreciate all the good gesture. But please mind the words. And we do not want anyone to have any wrong impression. Like I said. Our only mission is to help individual get prepared to find work. No more no less.

I appreciate you recommend anyone who needs help to come to us. But hope you do not spread the wrong message. The message we should spread is that everyone should work hard for their own future. As well as for a better future for the industry. The industry cannot grow without good talents.

One fair statement I need to make. In the past, many of the school mission is meant to prepare a talent to be immediately plug into the industry. However the mission has evolved as many of the school is now preparing talents academically to go into the university as well. Hence though the lecturers and schools want to focus on industry needs alone. As the mission has evolved into preparing one academically as well. Sometimes, the schools or lecturers have no choice. I am not speaking for anyone. This is based on my own observation when working with various task force.

So the important point is get connected to industry. And understand its need. Don't learn blindly. Prepare yourself.


Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:11 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:27 am
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Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
Bay wrote:
Just don't end up getting David into trouble.


nah, David nor Cg protege will not get into trouble but rather their good name will spread and get 2 thumbs up. Just to reflect the sentiment on the ground, those graduates that I spoke to are well aware of the hard truth that the polys are not teaching them the right stuff. But just not aware of CGprotege's existence.

But I have to say that like what those grads said of their classmates in their cohort, they mostly have a bo-chap attitude towards this course. So it's a vicious cycle.

Cgprotege might need to work on marketing side maybe? A big advertisement at City Hall is not enough I think? ^^

But I will be careful from now on. But hard truths have to be told truthfully and I am not going to mince my words on it. Overall, I thank Cgprotege for being my guiding star during my dark times after graduation.

I am still continuously improving my techniques but I thank CGprotege for teaching us "how to fish" in the first place.

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Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:28 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:27 am
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Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
fartboystinks wrote:
He was nice enough not to say you are only good enough to sell credit cards in MRT stations.

I stop here. =)


Well I would chose to be real ugly and cruel to those graduates who do not have the passion for the industry. But to those with the passion, we just be nice and lead them to CGprotege... ^^

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Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:30 am
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Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
I think the original intent of this thread was to find out what happened to all the CG artists in singapore and why it is so quiet in this forum- especially at the Artist Training Ground where people posting their work always happen to be the same few people and even those people only post new work every now and then. You'd think that with the amount of courses and graduates that Singapore produces every year, this would be a much more lively place rather than the moribund half dead forum that it is nowadays.

And then before you know it, it quickly devolved into a bitching session about the deficiencies of the poly system and the industry in general. While the polys are definitely not fulfilling their part of the bargain, always remember it takes 2 hands to clap. And if you ask me, the school and lecturers at best contributes only 10-15% of the finished product. The rest of the 85% comes from within the student. Some of you should probably read the book Outliers written by Malcolm Gladwell that repeatedly states within the book that for anyone to be successful in anything he does, its a matter of practicing that task repeatedly for a total of around 10, 000 hours.

Good schools can produce bad students just as bad schools can produce good students. The one constant is always the attitude and drive of the students. Sadly speaking, I feel that the drive and passion of the students these days no longer matches those of the pioneering CG artists who had faced much tougher struggles than the obstacles confronting students nowadays. Back in the day, trying to land a CG job was difficult enough without even talking about pay or working hours. What school you go to and who teaches you matters less than the amount of time you actually spend practicing at your craft.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and I see alot of people blaming the schools for not telling the students like it is. But then again, if the schools had forewarned the students, would you all have taken it seriously and did something about it? In my school, I constantly warn and remind my students of the amount of hardwork and dedication it requires and the ever increasing expectations of the studios and employers. Yet hardly anyone takes my advice seriously as they continue to slip and slide- happy with just obtaining a passing grade plus a constant complaint of too much work and not enough time.

If you truly loved what you are doing, then there shouldn't be any complaints should there?

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Over here is a compilation of the work that I did over the last 12-15 months and this does not even include the models that I've done in the game company that I was working for since I don't have the liberty to reveal them in a public forum. Let's not also forget over this 12 months period, I have twice conducted a 24 weeks long games modeling programme at CGProtege on top of my regular day job teaching at Digipen.

The number one excuse I always hear is NO TIME. Unless you are on a long term crunch, that shouldn't be an excuse. If you truly love what you're doing, you will make the time. I know I do.

It is very telling to me, to go through this entire thread to see the amount of blame being placed on the schools, the lecturers, the industry that not one has done any self reflection, to actually asked- have I done my best? Did I give a full 100 percent? Even the last 2 program that I've conducted at CGProtege, I have noticed a dropoff in the quality of work being produced once I ease back on the throttle and don't push people as hard. All too often, students these days expect to be spoonfed and they bring the same mentality into the workplace.

At some point in time, everyone has got to learn how to push and motivate themselves. We shouldn't be expecting David to continue babysit us.


Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:14 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 173
Post Re: What has happened to all the Singapore CG Artists?
This point may be a little late to raise in the discussion now, but this "phenomenon" of missing people is not restricted to CG artists alone. I occasionally dabble in game development once in a while, I also notice that grads from game development field (another area being pushed by govt and schools alike) also seemingly vanishing into limbo. Note that this is yet another field thats "fueled by passion" and where many students picked the course because it looked "cool". Local companies also sustain themselves on outsource work, sometimes uncredited.

For game development at least, the output far outweighs the available positions, even with newer companies (both local and MNC) coming in, some of them have closed,( i.e. Ksatria who were developing Lone Wolf), some moved to Malaysia where costs are lower. So where do the grads end up?

The more enterprising ones move to set tp their own companies, and some do begin to achieve some success. But in many situations, the students (those that are not serving NS), end up moving into other fields, either programming or system development where the work is more stable and may pay better, or they may have changed their mind after graduation when they realised that game development is not playtime. What they play is not as much fun when they are trying to replicate an obscure bug and debug it..... A bit similar to how we feel when we stare and our monitors doing cg, or even being unable to fully just sit down and enjoy a film as we subconsciously try to dissect camera, vfx and lighting etc

I guess the sad answer could be that some of these cg artists "grew out" of that phase in life, after failing realising too late the amount of effort that goes into making the beautivisuals that inspired them in the first place.

One important aspect of creating cg artists would be to let them have a realistic expectation of the effort required to be good, and a realistic expectation of what life is like as a cg artist. That might dampen their initial enthusiasm, but at least they cannot blame anyone else for sugarcoating what it is really like.

Another aspect might actually be to educate the public on what it is like as well, though I dont know if this would really be a good idea. We all know how the media intends to sometimes sugarcoat the whole industry (true for both games and animation/vfx/postpro studios), and parents first support their kids, then force them to pull out when the "harsh reality" hits them. Theres another big cause of missing cg artists right there.

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Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:41 pm
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